AN 'ULTIMATUM' OF AN INTERVIEW WITH JEPH LOEB

[Z. Julian Cenac]

An Ultimatum of an Interview with Jeph Loeb
Interview conducted by Z. Julian Cenac, Comixfan Staff

TV and comics’ multi-award-winning writer, Jeph Loeb, is topping the sales charts with Ultimatum – an event that will have an expected impact on an entire section of Marvel Comics. Mr. Loeb kindly answered some questions on Ultimatum as well as one of his other projects – Hulk.

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Comixfan: Ultimatum is making changes to an entire line of Marvel Comics. The first issue hit the ground running. Why is now the right time for change?

Jeph Loeb: Joe Quesada, Dan Buckley, Brian Bendis and I all met in NYC. It'd been eight years since the Ultimate Line had been launched. And since that time, largely do to the success of the UU, The Marvel Line was doing things that it never had before. What Brian has done with The Avengers is a great example of that. So as a way to make the Ultimate line what it HAD been where you could expect the unexpected (a 16 year old Spider-man? The X-Men as Rock Stars?) we decided to find a way to kick over the table and start again. I pitched ULTIMATUM and that gave it all shape. We later brought in Mark Millar (one of the original architects) and both Damon Lindelof and Allan Heinberg helped. Talk about talent!

CXF: Is Ultimatum an event that will bring about 'real' and lasting change, or just an impression of change?

JL: Well, if you've read the first two issues you can tell it's as real as real can get. There's no reset button.

CXF: Standard Marvel has arguably become ‘edgier’ and slightly more grounded. Is that a possible reason for the coming changes in the Ultimate line?

JL: See above.

CXF: With a new chapter in the Ultimate Marvel commencing after Ultimatum, would any parts of Ultimatum really appeal to new readers, or is it mainly targeted towards experienced fans?

JL: Both. Hopefully when this is all over we will have a kind of clean slate. NOTHING that happened before will be wiped out. This isn't a reboot as much as an aftermath. How do you survive in a brave new world? A very different, but REAL world.

CXF: The average age of the comic reader seems to be on the up and sales are falling. Should there not be an emphasis on making more ‘kid-friendly’ stories? After Ultimatum, will there be an emphasis on making the Ultimate line more geared towards new and young fans or is it safer to target the dwindling but loyal fan base?

JL: I don't know about any of that. All I can do is write the best stories I can and hope folks like them. Given the success of things as diverse as FALLEN SON, ULTIMATES 3, ULTIMATUM and HULK they seem to be enjoy it. I never take for granted how lucky I am to work in this business. I have such enormous respect for the fans, the readers and the retailers. I've can't tell them that enough.

CXF: By the end of the event, what will people find in Ultimate Marvel that they couldn't simply find in traditional Marvel?

JL: As I said, to return to expect the unexpected. We've got some pretty wild plans in store and enormously talented artists. Mostly I'm happy to have Brian and Mark back there. How exciting is for me to work the two best writers in the business recreating the universe they started!

CXF: Clearly the emphasis in Hulk is on fun and action. It does exactly what it sets out to do. But a section of fans were upset by Red Hulk casually defeating some powerful characters. Is such a power-level sustainable and is it possible to please everyone with it?

JL: At the risk of repeating myself, I tell the best stories I can. As Groucho Marx once said "You can please some of the time, and you can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please some of the people some of the time!"

CXF: It is a safe bet to say that some of the most energetic comic fight scenes these days are in Hulk. How do you and the art team choreograph the scenes?

JL: I write it all out. Map it all out. It's how my brain works which sometimes troubles the women I'm dating! I also have Ed McGuinness who can't be matched in that world -- although Arthur Adams and Frank Cho are home run hitters too!

CXF: Where is the line between creating a story that some people will read purely for enjoyment, and entertaining those who take things more seriously?

JL: Is there a line? I don't think people read books they don't enjoy.

CXF: Is World War Hulk pretty much swept under the carpet with the traditional green Hulk having returned?

JL: Nothing has been done without purpose. I've never worked that way. Ed, Mark Panicia (our Editor) and I have it all mapped out. World War Hulk is too important to sweep under the rug. Ever.

CXF: And what is coming up in Hulk? I see a new Sorcerer Supreme might be making a cameo ...

JL: Well, "a" Doctor Strange is already in play as of Issue #10. Can't say more than that for now. But when the NEW SS is revealed in NEW AVENGERS, people will have seen some clues over in our book (thanks to Brian too!)

CXF: Is Red Hulk a relatively permanent feature in the Marvel line?

JL: Seems to be. And that's a smile!

CXF: And lastly, is Red Hulk going to fight Wolverine any time soon?

JL: Sooner than you think! There's an announcement about ALL of that coming!

[Kurse]

CFX: How does it feel to be selling extremely well despite writing some of the worst comics on the market today?

JL: F---ing GREAT!

[Congo Jack]

Originally Posted by Z. Julian Cenac

CXF: And lastly, is Red Hulk going to fight Wolverine any time soon?

JL: Sooner than you think! There's an announcement about ALL of that coming!

That's because Red Hulk is secretly Romulus.

[Wicked_Incite]

Not a bad get there Z, good job

"I don't think people read comics they don't enjoy."

Well they shouldn't, and I don't, but there are lots of people who still buy books they hate out of habit. I can understand that with webcomics or other free fare, but intentionally paying for something you no longer like? Fans really perplex me sometimes.

[Michael Regan]

To be honest, Nick, over the years I have fallen into that trap.

Essentially, for example, if someone is a big Spider-Man fan they may wish to get every title involving Spider-Man. Looking back at the 1980s there was Amazing Spider-Man, Peter Parker the Spectacular Spider-Man, Web of Spider-Man and Marvel Team-Up. It is likely that fans would have collected all the titles in order to get the "complete picture" even if they did not like what was being relayed in Web of Spider-Man.

Another fan habit is that we have seen writers come and go on all of our favourite titles and no matter how bad a particular story arc may be, there is always that glimmer of hope in the future that the production team will change for the better. Sometimes it is simply easier to struggle through a few bad issues.

I'm not saying that this is the logic being used, nor that this is good logic, just that is a good possibility of what is happening.

[Kurse]

CFX: So, are we going to find out who the red Hulk is this year?

JL: This year? No. This decade? Maybe.

CFX: How does it feel to follow in the footsteps of Millar only to RUIN the Ultimates franchise?

JL: I'm too busy making bank off of the crappy stories I write to care.

[Rictor]

Good interview!
Loeb's recent Buffy: Season 8 one-shot was the best thing he's written in years, but he's so 'hit and miss' these days, it's not even funny.

[Phil Hunn]

I'm going to stick my neck out and say that Hulk is quite possibly the most entertaining stupid-awesome comic on the shelves today. I hope it keeps going for a long time, and that Red Hulk sticks around for as long as possible, if only to keep beating up random heroes just because he can

[dopplegager]

JL- "Lets see you do better you whining fan boys."

Float On

[Blade Runner]

I'm not really interested in any of Loeb's current Marvel work after reading his Wolverine arc and hearing the feedback on Ultimates 3, Ultimatum, and Hulk--That said, some of the comments in this thread seem outright abusive. It seems like this site should be doing it's best to curb that kind of behavior in order to score interviews with guys like Loeb in the future.

[Kurse]

Originally Posted by dopplegager

JL- "Lets see you do better you whining fan boys."

Float On

Better than Ultimates 3? Shouldn't be too hard.

Ironically enough, really well written books somehow don't sell nearly as well.

Whine On

[Wicked_Incite]

May I reiterate that critical discussion is fine, but creator bashing is a violation of the site rules. In other words: cool it Kurse, we get it already.

[David Henry]

Originally Posted by Nick Costanzo

Not a bad get there Z, good job

"I don't think people read comics they don't enjoy."

Well they shouldn't, and I don't, but there are lots of people who still buy books they hate out of habit. I can understand that with webcomics or other free fare, but intentionally paying for something you no longer like? Fans really perplex me sometimes.

Comics are a long, addictive habit for most. I think the longer you've been collecting, the harder it is to break the cycle of reading what you don't enjoy.

Common sense should tell you otherwise, but it's like quitting smoking in that it's easier said than done.

When comics were still under $2, it was easier to experiment and pick up things you had a casual interest in. Marvel's new $4 price tag should even out the true numbers regarding people buying only what they truly enjoy.

At least that's how it will work for me.

Originally Posted by Michael Regan

To be honest, Nick, over the years I have fallen into that trap.

Essentially, for example, if someone is a big Spider-Man fan they may wish to get every title involving Spider-Man. Looking back at the 1980s there was Amazing Spider-Man, Peter Parker the Spectacular Spider-Man, Web of Spider-Man and Marvel Team-Up. It is likely that fans would have collected all the titles in order to get the "complete picture" even if they did not like what was being relayed in Web of Spider-Man.

Another fan habit is that we have seen writers come and go on all of our favourite titles and no matter how bad a particular story arc may be, there is always that glimmer of hope in the future that the production team will change for the better. Sometimes it is simply easier to struggle through a few bad issues.

I'm not saying that this is the logic being used, nor that this is good logic, just that is a good possibility of what is happening.

It's like abusive spouse syndrome. Your spouse mistreats you, but you still hang on hoping things will get better, when you should simply drop her/him like a rock.

Another explanation is that we're completists, and must have every issue so as to not miss anything.

What you mention is the reason I stopped having a pull list at my local comic shop. While it was nice getting 20% off all books (which would be seriously nice now), you're still stuck with fill-in issues and weak issues you really don't want to buy -- which offsets any discounts you've earned.

Recently, I've passed up on nearly a dozen comics I normally would buy without a second thought. The economoy what it is, and new prices what they are, I won't settle for mediocrity in anything I buy. I hope once things get better, I'll retain those same standards.

Originally Posted by dopplegager

JL- "Lets see you do better you whining fan boys."

Float On

I doubt Loeb would respond that way, for one. Second, there is a certain expectation of a professional writer, and folks have been critical of Loeb, of late.

It would have been interesting to see Loeb's thoughts on fan reaction to Ultimates 3.

Originally Posted by Blade Runner

I'm not really interested in any of Loeb's current Marvel work after reading his Wolverine arc and hearing the feedback on Ultimates 3, Ultimatum, and Hulk--That said, some of the comments in this thread seem outright abusive. It seems like this site should be doing it's best to curb that kind of behavior in order to score interviews with guys like Loeb in the future.

Loeb's heart seems to be with the DC characters he grew up with. His handling of Batman and Catwoman are par excellence, and his love for the characters is obvious. It's similar to Joss Whedon's childhood love for X-Men shining through on Astonishing. When a great fan of a character gets to write that character or set of characters, good things happen.

While it's obvious Loeb loves Batman, I couldn't tell you who his favorite Marvel character is, though I'd probably guess it's Wolverine or Hulk.

Over to the Ultimate Universe. Ultimates 1 and 2 were two of the best series of the last decade. Loeb's Ultimates 3 unravelled many of Millar's story telling gems and made the book too traditional Marvel Universe, too similar to trails already tread.

Changing Thor's speech to Olde English, reverting his hammer, making explicit Wanda and Pietro's implicit relationship, making Wanda lose control, having Wanda fall in love with a robot, and killing Wanda, were all sore spots -- and had already been done in the regular Marvel Universe in greater scope.

Scarlet Witch was one of my favorites because of how little we knew of her. Think about it. In Ultimates 1 and 2, we saw Wanda fly and cast a few hexes only in the final battle with the Liberators. She's a witch, and the mystique fit her just fine.

It was disappointing to see Marvel 616 stories regurgitated in the Ultimate Universe with Wanda. Using her as a catalyst for a major storyline was cliched.

MAD's art was incredible in Ultimates 3, but the book lost much of its Ultimate universe edge. The status quo was reset to being regular Marvel Universe fare.

Loeb's DC work and his many contributions to Batman, on the other hand, are classic. And his Catwoman: When In Rome is one of my all-time favorite miniseries, without a doubt. All of the above leads me to believe Loeb could give Brubaker a run for his money in the noir genre.

Loeb still remains one of the all-time great comic writers, but his current run at Ultimate Marvel doesn't measure up to what he's done in years past. His work on TV's Heroes, however, was nothing short of great.

Nice to see an interview with Loeb on the site.

[Jos1988]

On the note of creator bashing - i recall an incident a few years ago where it appeared like the whole site was bashing chuck austin. what happened with that in the end?

Kurse was overdoing it a bit (tho i admit to being rather amused).

On the more constructive side, this interview was rather lacklustre compared to other interesting interviews i have read in the past. I don't think its any fault on behalf of the interviewer but it felt like Loeb's responses were a little patronising. At least that was the impression i got.

[Michael Regan]

Originally Posted by David Henry

Another explanation is that we're completists, and must have every issue so as to not miss anything.

Now that you mention it, that really does describe me. Likely why Resources is a nice place for me to call home

Originally Posted by Jos1988

On the more constructive side, this interview was rather lacklustre compared to other interesting interviews i have read in the past. I don't think its any fault on behalf of the interviewer but it felt like Loeb's responses were a little patronising. At least that was the impression i got.

I would not say patronising, but perhaps a little too blunt.

[Kurse]

Originally Posted by Jos1988

On the note of creator bashing - i recall an incident a few years ago where it appeared like the whole site was bashing chuck austin. what happened with that in the end?

Oh, Chuck Austen is the worst. IMO, if you're going to be a comic writer/artist, you are leaving yourself open to criticism. ESPECIALLY if you don't do a good job. His writing was not only bad but his art was equally crappy.

Kurse was overdoing it a bit (tho i admit to being rather amused).

Yeah, I was being a douche but I have two things to say in my defense: Rulk defied all continuity and wielded Mjolnir.

And Ultmates 3.

And I'm glad somebody was amused.

[Phil Hunn]

Originally Posted by Kurse

Yeah, I was being a douche but I have two things to say in my defense: Rulk defied all continuity and wielded Mjolnir.

Yes, that was daft. Gravity should not have any effect on whether or not anybody can use Mjolnir... but then again, we saw Rulk kick the Watcher in the gonads and Hulk get turned into a WendiHulk, so it's swings and roundabouts

Okay folks, enough with the bashing here. It stops now. If you don't like an artist or writer fine, but harping on and on about it isn't cool. As to the supposed Austin bashing by CXF - that is simply not true and even people who weren't all that happy with CA's work (like myself) just decided to refrain from discussing his work on the site. Chuck Austin chose not to come to CXF anymore due to a hyper-fan who, it appears, may have been cyber stalking him. CXF was not the only place where he was getting negative fan reactions. But since we are only concerned with CXF we did not appreciate the people who continued to bash him here, regardless of our own personal feelings. The same holds true for all comic creators: bashing is never allowed and may cause a poster to incur warnings if they continue. This is done regardless of staff opinion on said creator.

I await the brilliant originality of being called a Nazis for jumping in, even though no one has gotten any warning points. Let’s all try to play nice and just keep it cool please.

[Jos1988]

It's "Nazi" singular. Not plural.

[Michael Regan]

Originally Posted by Jos1988

It's "Nazi" singular. Not plural.

Good editing, now write something interesting for me

Originally Posted by Jos1988

It's "Nazi" singular. Not plural.

I will write this one the chalk board one hundred times.

Now back to our regularly scheduled thread...

[James Groves]

Any idea when we'll see another Batman book, Jeph?

Or Catwoman for that matter?

[David Henry]

Originally Posted by James Groves

Any idea when we'll see another Batman book, Jeph?

Or Catwoman for that matter?

A followup to Catwoman: When In Rome would be sweet! A Loeb-Sale collaboration is on the same tier as Bendis-Maleev.

Last I heard, though, Loeb is Marvel exclusive at the moment.

[Kurse]

Originally Posted by Magic Rabbit

[color=darkblue]Chuck Austin chose not to come to CXF anymore due to a hyper-fan who, it appears, may have been cyber stalking him.

And we're all very grateful for that.

[David Henry]

Originally Posted by Kurse

And we're all very grateful for that.

C'mon, Kurse. I understand your levity, but I think it's great to have any creators onboard, especially writers, to pick their heads aparat regarding their process.

I haven't seen Austen's name for quite some time. It would be interesting to see what he's been up to, and if he's even in the field. Last I recall, he was doing Adventures of Superman a few years ago.

A "catching up with" interview could be fun.